SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Ask for the Skinny Podcast with a guest. I'm proud to present Kimberly Kaler. Kimberly, welcome to the show. Please tell us more about yourself. What is your story?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here today. I think the content that you bring to your listeners is so needed in today's busy, busy culture. A little bit about myself. I am a corporate executive that has spent 30 years helping organizations with organizational change, strategic planning, marketing consulting. But my side hustle is uh relates to yoga. And I recently wrote a book about these ancient lessons you learn to be a yoga teacher and how they can apply if we take those same lessons to the work that we do. So hopefully that will be a great jumping off point for our conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Amazing. Uh my girl girlfriend is also a certified yoga instructor. And uh I'm forced to do yoga every evening in order not to get together.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Well, I hope you're going to like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

No, no, I I I like it a lot. Uh I must uh say I was more in um uh let's say combat sports uh or martial arts, and I was more in in weightlifting, and I still do that because it's important, but before I go to bed in the evening, I um almost every day, not every day, but like five, seven times, six times a week. One one usually on Sunday I miss. Um I I do a bit 15 to 20 minutes of uh yoga. Uh let me stress that it's just physical, and I know there's so much uh more behind yoga. Can we talk a bit about more uh of this um esoteric part of yoga and teaching uh that you're using?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Sure, definitely. So I relate quite a bit, and I think many of the listeners probably do of how you end up finding yoga. Um, you know, you are in competitive sports or you're an adrenaline junkie. I'm a former marathon runner, and I was told I needed to start doing yoga, not just for the physical aspects, but to help with the mind stuff, which relates so much to us in terms of midlife as well, and having that awareness. Um, you know, so so many people end up finding yoga at first because they're told they need to find it, and for the physical part, and then maybe the rest of the story kind of sneaks itself in in terms of calming the mind, um, settling things down. Um, you know, so it sounds like you've had a little bit of that tease too, Peter, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yes, and I would like to speak something that I'm I'm sure that you are uh well aware of and you're an expert in. Um when you're young, we have different handling mechanisms, and we handle stress differently because uh we can uh we can release so much stress with uh our let's say physical activity. But uh when we get in the um midlife, uh we have to somehow change our handling mechanisms, and that is uh or one of the ways uh to do that is to to switch from extremely let's say adrenaline uh producing sports or activities to more um relaxed and um stress uh not stress-inducing aktivities, or if I uh simplify it a bit, go from um handling stress with additional stress to our body to uh handling stress uh with the offset of uh no or low stress. Can we talk a bit more about these handling mechanisms and how you perceive them in midlife? What uh changes?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Sure, definitely. So this is something chances are most of the listeners learned maybe in biology class in you know, seventh grade or as a youth. It goes back to our fight or flight. So as human beings, we are programmed when we have that stress response, that cortisol release in our body to actually react to it and take care of our body. So that can show up in terms that stress response could happen with um a hard workout. It can, you know, we're playing soccer, a competitive sport. Um, you know, we're doing weightlifting. We have that cortisol, which we need to be able to perform. That same cortisol release also happens when we get an email from somebody that maybe stresses it out. You haven't even read the email yet, but you saw the name pop along your screen and you had that stress response that, you know, or maybe um caller ID on your phone shows somebody's calling and you already have that stress response. Well, our body does not distinguish between whether or not we're running away from a bear when we live in a cave back in the beginning of time, or if we're sitting at our desk, or if we're weightlifting and we have that cortisol response. When we have that cortisol response go through our body, that stress, it actually slows down our digestion. Um, it actually makes us hypersensitive and hyper-vigilant. So we're quick to react to things. And that's great because that means that our bodies can run away from the tiger or the bear. Okay. It means we can perform from an athletic standpoint. But what happens by midlife is we have so many of those stress responses. We're not running from tigers and bears. We got an email, you know, we had an uncomfortable conversation, but our body still has that same stress response. So we want to get into that rest and digest mode. Um, and that's where more calming activities where we actually engage the vagus nerve, and the vagus nerve actually helps turn on that part of the brain that says, okay, you're not in danger. Um, and that actually helps with our sleep, it improves our digestion, um, it shuts off that cortisol production. You know, so these are things that you probably learned as a kid, and now to recognize that we're actually having that stress response all day long. So every time you have that cortisol rush, it's in your body for 48 hours until we act, unless we do something to actually help get it out. So calming activities like yoga are great, walking, meditation, finding a way to deal with this stress response is really uh really key.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

So can you tell us uh a bit more how you help people uh uh first recognize that they are under a lot of stress, and then how they should uh handle it? And you mentioned something that I I believe is is extremely important, uh, and that is that we need about two days to get the stress out of our system if everything is okay. But now, with uh all the social media always being on the phone, even uh the weekends or working over the weekends, we we we we don't have this uh 48-hour window to completely relax. So um how should we go about it? How should we um start managing stress if not avoiding it?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Well, one way is to really um get in touch with yourself and understand the cues that your body gives you. So, you know, if you if you stop and think about, you know, giving that same example of um caller ID showing a person that's gonna show up on your screen. And if you notice your shoulders go up or your your digestion gets a little funny, maybe you get a headache, maybe your breathing starts to actually be rapid. So start to watch when you have those types of physical reactions, and you may have different ones from that. That gives you some cues in terms of how your body is dealing with stress. And then once you're able to identify those, you can then train yourself of like, hey, the I feel it in my body that these things are happening. How can I slow this down? How can I actually take a moment? Um, it may be stopping and and and breathing, as simple as that sounds. I mean, when when our when kids come up to us and they're anxious and they're upset and they got in a fight with somebody on the playground, what's the first thing we tell them to do? We tell them to stop and to breathe, you know? And then as adults, we've tend to tend to forget to breathe. We really do. It seems silly, but we have to tell ourselves to breathe. So understanding the cues in your physical body and then identifying ways where maybe you could slow it down and stop that immediate response is really, really key. Um, you know, and and that comes in many different forms for for many people. Like meditation may not be your jam, it may not be something that's a fit for you. Um, but being careful of like maybe you could take a walk instead. We tend to be so addicted to this adrenaline, whether it's through social media or even our own workouts, that we just pack on cortisol on cortisol on cortisol. There's been some really interesting studies about uh soldiers um, you know, that that come back from war and they tend to gravitate towards those adrenaline type of junky activities. And that actually puts them in that hypervigilant stage and that overdrive and that um cortisol production again. And when they replace some of those activities or augmented, you can still have those hard workouts, but if you can augment them also with ways in which they can breathe, slow down, walk, yoga, um, other activities, it actually helped quite a bit. So hopefully that that answered your question and it's a good starting point.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yeah, uh, thank you. I will uh move to my favorite question now. Uh, you're a book author. And uh when we're addressing our first, uh when we go out of the oblivion uh to the problems, to our own problems and our own body, and when we start uh noticing or uh start uh identifying that there is something that might not be the best for us or that is not working out for us. And when we go and then uh search for uh solution, um I identify this way as uh first uh we start with denial. Oh everything is okay, that this is not uh for me. Um then we start searching for information, maybe that could be me. Uh, and then we said, okay, it is definitely me, and then we start searching for information all over the internet, and um then we want to read something, we have a book, and then we go for a workshop, and then we go for a mentor. Where do you see what can be solved with uh just browsing the internet and uh listening to podcasts like uh the people are doing now? And uh what when do we need um to go and uh buy a book from an expert? What's your take on that?

SPEAKER_00 11:43

So that's a really great question, and I think we've all fallen trapped to we know something's wrong, or we're having a challenge, or we're struggling. And so we do search and we go, we read the book, or we go to that workshop, and then even though we're excited about what we learned, it's really hard to implement it. You know, it's it's hard to take that because you quickly go back into your life and you're busy and we have habits. So my advice to that is to sit in what you learn and then bite it off into chunks. So is there one or two things that you learn that you can try and implement? You know, and that's not a new idea. I mean, that's been proven in psychology in terms of making habits and changes. Are is there one thing, is there two things that you could actually implement and start to build the habit? I can share a personal example for me. Um, a year ago, I was finding that I was stressed out every morning by the time I even got to my desk, because I woke up, I would check my phone, I was dealing with the emails that would come in overnight. I, you know, would then check social media, which made me stressed out as well. Um, and so I actually committed to not checking my email until I had first meditated. And for me, meditation is sitting for a couple of minutes and I do a guided meditation through an app. Um, I moved my body a little bit, just 15 minutes of light stretching. Um, and I didn't check my social media or my email until after I had done those things and got myself a little bit of food. And it was life-changing to make those small steps. If I had just gone from implementing what I learned in a workshop about all the things I needed to cut out and all the things that I needed to do, I probably wouldn't have been successful. But by making these small stages, it was actually life-changing, you know. So that's what I would see. And then, you know, making these small steps, and then of course, at any point, um, if you are still struggling, knowing when to reach out for others for help is a key thing to do too.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Okay, where would you put um technology in? I'm talking about wearables. Uh, for example, we have smart rings, we have smart watches. Uh, where would you uh put this technology in uh in helping us identify uh what state are we in?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

That's a great question. I think that depends on the person and what is a fit for you in terms of how you relate to technology and how you um receive information. I don't like to be a slave to technology. I have a smartwatch and I use it more than anything because I can quickly see if somebody needs to get a hold of me and I track the distance when I run. But besides that, I keep away from it. I know a lot of people have had really great success with the rings and things like that with sleep. I feel like I'm connected so much with technology all day long, I need a break from it. So that may be something to consider. Um, you know, and then also, you know, there's a there's a saying in bait in in business, like, you know, if you're measuring something, what are you gonna do with it too? So we can measure everything these days. Um are you gonna actually use that information? You know, and how so? If you can use it to good, maybe again, it's a matter of like focus on one thing. So if you get something, some sort of technology a wearable that helps you with your sleep and you sit with it and learn for it, that's great. But don't try and implement all the technology in the world because then all of a sudden you're stressed out with your technology too. Um, that happened a lot when people first got those Fitbits, probably 10 years ago, and everybody was trying to get the 10,000 steps, which we all know now was kind of a made-up number that's been proven or not proven over time. Um, and it created more stress than probably was needed. You know, people, I remember myself running up and down a hotel room um um um hallway when I was on a business trip before midnight because I hadn't got my 10,000 steps yet, and my my wearable told me that I wasn't there, and I had in my brain I had to do it, you know. So being really cognizant of that, like have we thrown common sense out with the wearables too? So I don't know. Do you use wearables? Do you have any input on that?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Um I'm a huge uh how I say um uh opposition to wearables. Okay, I I I do use them, for example, uh if I have to measure something, because uh we have a lab here, we measure different things and we measure aura and stuff like this, so uh a lot of things. Um, but only when I'm part of the experiment myself, or when I'm preparing for a larger experiment, so I know what to expect. Um, but I'm a huge opposition to this. Uh, not that I do not recommend because some people need that because they lack discipline and uh self-observation ability, especially when you are under stress, wearables will um help you identify problems that you are looking away from. Uh however, I um I I would argue that the best thing would be that we are enough or that we become enough self-aware that we don't need wearables. Um, however, that's an as I said, ideal solution when you're not under too much stress and uh in working environment because uh I I spent most of the time uh let's say at home or in uh environment with uh low or no stress, and it's easy for me to say. But uh if when I was uh manager um and uh doing uh the C-level stuff, uh there was no way that I would be able to identify what's wrong with me because I was so driven and in so deep in the business problems that I would completely forget about my body. Um I would like to address another elephant in the room, and I I I would like to have your point of view on that, and that is all this um AI or super intelligence as you call it these days. Um and uh I would what do you think about the answers from the jet uh based AIs? Uh, and what is the difference between your book and the Jet-based replies and uh your advice and Jet-based advice?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Oh, that's a that's a great question. Um I would hope that the my book comes from a place of authenticity because I've worked really hard to take these ancient principles and talk about how they can apply to us today in the work we do. And by work we do, I don't just mean corporate world. You may be a teacher, uh, maybe it's volunteer work you do in your community. Um, and I've tried to be very deliberate about bringing real world examples into it. And so I think that's what we lose with AI in many cases is that true authenticity. Um, you know, you're getting generic responses back. Though some of them are pretty good. Some of those generic responses have gotten better, you know, because it's been trained. Um, but we can't substitute the importance of actually having that human connection with things too. You know, so whether you relate to my book or something else that you read to that you turn for guidance, um, you know, be really deliberate about making sure you can have a real connection with that. And your connection is not to a wearable computer or an AI system.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Kimberly, can we talk a bit about uh your book? Uh what is the story behind your book? Why did you write the book and uh what's the content and why should our listeners uh buy your book?

SPEAKER_00 19:56

So the reason I wrote my book is I found myself during the global pandemic um helping organizations navigate through how to communicate with their employees as well as their customers, their clients, their other stakeholders. And I found that for the most part, it was the first time most organizations were really actually thinking about their employees, about the people. Um, I think most organizations talk a really good game and they actually even believe they think about people and their people first, and they even say that they're people first, and our people are our most important asset. But having to really make decisions with related to keeping the business running while also taking care of the safety and well-being of your people and your other stakeholders and all of that was really complicated for so many organizations. It was the first time they had to navigate through those types of tough decisions. And so I found myself when I was providing counsel because I handle crisis communications. I found myself pulling on the wisdom that I learned to become a yoga teacher, these ancient principles about how to govern your actions as well as how to govern your actions and how you interact with others. I started pulling those principles and I found them to be guiding principles in terms of how I was helping others. So that's where the idea of the book came. Um I started it in fits during the pandemic because I was like, wow, I just wish people would stop and understand this a little better, or they'd slow down and think about this part of it. Um, and that's that's where it came about.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

And before I let you go, please tell us who should go and purchase your book straight away after listening to our podcast.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Well, hopefully it's a fit for um anybody that's looking for a little bit more purpose in the work that they do. And that's the goal of it. Again, work you do is defined by anything that you may be doing. Maybe you're a volunteer at a religious organization, maybe it is corporate America, it's healthcare, it's academia. Um, I would encourage you to um look it up. I have a website which is wisdomfor the workwe do.com. I have um other podcasts on there, and I'll be sure to link this one because I'm excited to promote um the great work that you do. Um, and I've broken the book into these 10 different ancient principles into very small snippets. And at the end of each chapter, there's questions that you can work through. You can also work through with your team, and there's also case study at the end. So hopefully it's something that you can pick up and you can read 10 minutes at a time. You could read cover to cover, you could decide you want to start on chapter four and go back. It's it's really easy to be able to work your way through that because I know what it's like to pick up a big business book or listen to a workshop or a lecture. And even if the content is good, how do you apply it as such a struggle in today's world?

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Kimberly, thank you for being my guest. Thank you for all the insights. And um let's hope that our listeners go and buy our book because I I believe that's a must have in today's world.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Awesome, Peter. Thank you. It's wonderful to be a guest.